Interview: Thomas Kloepfer of Pitchfork Farms

Thomas Kloepfer and his wife run Pitchfork Farms, an eco-friendly farm located on Mukaishima in Onomichi, Hiroshima. The farm cultivates seasonal fruits, vegetables, and herbs on a thriving hillside market garden and orchard overlooking the Seto-Inland sea. As regenerative farmers, the farm aims to maintain natural cycles and reduce the use of off-farm resources by producing their own energy, seeds, and fertilizers. In addition to being a sustainable farm, Pitchfork Farms is also an off-grid energy producer and rainwater and well water harvester. The farm is home to sheep, chickens, and ducks, and is dedicated to connecting the community to sustainable farming practices while celebrating the land and people.

We spoke in detail about his past, his goals, farming, and future.

Connect with Pitchforkfarms.jp

AI Transcription of Interview (Note errors abound in transcription to be corrected shortly…)

Leafbox:

Hi everyone. I just had the pleasure of speaking with Thomas Kloepfer. He's an American farmer who is now based in Mukaishima Japan. He runs a small farm called Pitchfork Farms with his wife. He practices regenerative farming. He's interested in introducing animal husbandry. He does workshops. He's part of a community that's growing and trying to be sustainable in many ways. I thought this was a great conversation to see the history and insight into someone navigating their own path in an island on an island. I hope you find it interesting, and thanks for listening. How do you introduce yourself usually to people who don't know what you're doing in Japan?

Thomas Kloepfer:

Yeah, so my name is Thomas Michael Kleer. I'm from Athens, Georgia originally, but I moved to Japan in 2011 in the summer, and I originally came here as a teacher, but I studied sustainable development in undergrad at Appalachian State University, and I wanted to continue what I was learning and practicing there. And so I started a small garden plot as a teacher here in Japan and have slowly turned it into, or it's now pitchfork farms. So we've slowly turned the small plot into our farm and that's what we do pretty much on a day-to-day basis.

Leafbox:

What, you said you were a teacher, were you with the JET program or

Thomas Kloepfer:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that was it. It was the jet program. In 2011, Japan had the major earthquake and kushima meltdown, and a lot of people quit the program around that time. So because there was now new space available, I went from being on the B list to the A-list and was able to come here and found myself in Hiroshima, in Onomichi, which is a small port town, very close to Hiroshima city, but in the western part of Japan.

Leafbox:

And then what was your interest in regenerative farming or just sustainable farming in the beginning? What drew you to that? Did you come from a farming background or just where did that start from?

Thomas Kloepfer:

Yeah, I grew up in Athens, Georgia, so it was a town, a college town in the south. I was interested in food to a certain degree, but I mean restaurants and working in this kind of place kind of led me to think more about food and where my food comes from. And then joining a sustainable program, that was one of the bigger parts of the program is that we needed to choose a major and I chose sustainable agriculture or agro ecology, and we happened to read Masanobu Fukuoka book, the One Straw Revolution or in Japanese (わら一本の革命), and that was a really pivotable pivotal part in learning about how to grow food potentially with no herbicides, no pesticides, and then even going to the point of no-till, which is what he talked about some in his book.

Leafbox:

That's one of my favorite books. I actually always have about 10 copies on hand, and whenever I meet new people, I give them a copy of that book. I just find it, I'm not a very good gardener or farmer, but it's just has a beautiful life philosophy and Buddhist and kind of anti-corporate and anti just homogeneity and it's just such a wonderful book to, as you know. Right, right. It's funny though, because sometimes I give it to people who are really into farming and they immediately have quite visceral reactions and I'm like, well, just check it out. He used to be a pretty traditional farmer and he knows what he is talking about and you know, don't have to take everything he's doing. And so I have a small community plot and I, it's out of control weeds. But no, it's fun. It's just really nice to sometimes let things go.

And then I feel like my community plot has done a lot better, just the less I till the less I do, and sometimes it does better. But then last season it seems like I've gone a little bit out of control, but we finally had to weed a little bit and now I think it's slowly hitting that middle point he's aiming for. So I really like that book. How did you first discover that book? You read it in college and when you came to Japan, actually the question I have is did you meet people who knew him or what was the relationship with him and in Japan particularly?

Thomas Kloepfer:

Right, so in 2008 I read the book, it was a required reading for the Sustainable AG 1 0 1, so Christoph then Beagler guy from Holland introduced it to all the students and we read it. And then I guess it was in 2010, I needed to do an internship and I didn't really want to do an internship in the us and so I thought maybe I could intern in Japan if I came here in 2010 and got familiar with some community people in Nagano and then often talked about the book and people knew about it, but I was surprised to find that he's maybe more famous outside of Japan and his work is, it's been translated in dozens of languages and I think his work more well known outside of Japan, but slowly trying to discuss what he was doing with other people around me. And I guess it was around 2016 or 17, we bought the property and I listened to it again on audiobooks and I was like, oh yeah, what he was doing, we're kind of doing a little bit of that.

There was one chapter I think where he talked about the chickens. He was raising very small native chickens that called Chak and these types and I think it was a chapel and they were tiny little chickens so that we couldn't even pin 'em in. And they were free ranging in the farm. And he talked about that in the book, letting the chickens come back. And then one day he let 'em free, he thought they were gone. They came back with little chicks following in tow, and I thought, wow, we're starting to see that here on our property. And just another reminder of what we're trying to do here. So yeah, it was really from the undergrad degree that introduced the book, the first book. And then I was able to visit his farm. His grandson now runs the property, visited there last two years ago in the winter. So that was another great experience to see his farm and space where he was growing citrus.

Leafbox:

And how is that experience? Are they still growing

Thomas Kloepfer:

Citrus? They are still growing citrus, but to meet with modern times, they're growing more diverse crops. We harvested over 30 or 40 containers of lemons that day up on a steep slope. I got to see his abandoned house, which they've thought about renovating, but it was interesting to see, and he even mentioned this, that maybe his house would be just taken back over by nature. And that was starting to happen. I think the wild boar had moved in and sorry, the election is going on behind me. So it's a color that drives around this hill.

Leafbox:

No, no, that's a very classic image in Japan. Those are quite annoying. Yeah, yeah, almost propagandistic sounds. But no, every time I go to Japan in the summer, you always hear though, in early spring. Yep. You said we. Who's the other people in your farm?

Thomas Kloepfer:

It's me and my wife that run the farm. So yeah, we came here in, we got married in 2016, sorry, 2000. We got married in 2015 and we bought the farm in 2017. And my wife, she runs a textile property, natural dying, hand spinning, and she does a lot of other work within the community. So I think of her as kind of like this, the thread that kind of brings people together and I think textile wise, that's what she's doing as well. So it's me and her working and managing the property.

Leafbox:

So how big is your farm and how do you decide what to grow? And just tell me a little bit more about the farm.

Thomas Kloepfer:

Yeah, so the farm, when I first started, I was just growing a few, three or four meters by three or four meters when I first got started because it was an abandoned citrus orchard, so it's on a slight SL slope. And we initially were trying to just cultivate in the flat ground and have slowly worked our way up the hill using livestock like goats and sheep. And in the last several years we raised sheep, we have a pig, we have chickens, duck, and we grow. This climate allows us to grow 80 or 90 types of vegetables a year that we've put in boxes. And then we have over 200 or 300 trees we've planted in the last three or four years. Mostly citrus because it was a citrus orchard and I think fuka, he also talked a lot about citrus in his book and we're really close to where he was located.

It's just about two or hour drive from our farm. So we can really produce a lot and we can produce year round, which is also a very unique part and feature of this region. And we have one greenhouse on the property that allows us to propagate and put out crops either year round or get our seeds started a little bit early this morning I was transplanting Bokchoy and I'll be planting or Chrystnaum green basically. And then I'm going to be transplanting next to that zucchini. So I'm planting all of that today plus salad, radishes and diakon as well as korabi, beans and coriander is probably what I'll put in the field today.

Leafbox:

And then Thomas, how are you selecting your seeds? Do you propagate your own seeds or a mixture or commercial or?

Thomas Kloepfer:

It's a mixture of everything because we did a lot of seed saving the last four years. There's an old tool on the farm called a Tomi, which is basically a winnow, I believe that you can spin a little fan and you can separate seeds that way you can separate the waste or the lighter bits from the actual seed itself. So we're actually able to save a lot of brassica seeds, some grain seeds like wheat or barley. But we do buy seeds. There's a few seed companies. And when I first moved here, I started using tan NoMo, which is a Japanese seed company close to Tokyo that imports a lot of organic and biodynamic seeds. Another one is no Gucci seed, which is another one that get, brings in a lot of organic or natural farmed seeds. And then we do buy commercial seeds as well that fit into our market garden because it's, we're not a hundred percent no-till and natural farm, we do do a lot of no-till on the farm or we do what's broad forking or pitch?

I use a pitchfork because a broad fork isn't available here in Japan. So I take a small pitch fork and put that into the soil and move it around a little bit just to air rate the soil a little bit. And then I might come back and put some compost on top and direct seed or transplant into that space. So that's how we typically prep beds these days. But yeah, we're a mix. We're mixed production because certain times of the year, if I was to do all completely natural farming, which is letting plants go to flower, letting them then go to seed and then letting them drop. I have sections in pockets of the farm that are much like that. But then there's other parts where I have guests and people coming over that for tours that I like to have the place looking cleaned up a bit.

And I do think weed pressure is pretty intense in Japan because of the high humidity and heat and the variety of weeds that grow. So we do some cultivation then and think about how we can manage the grasses better. And one of the main reasons I do end up cutting and using a SIFE to come through and cut a lot of the grass back is because we have sheep and that's their main source of food when their pasture doesn't have as much grass in it. So that's another part of the farm I think then. And

Leafbox:

Then Thomas, could you tell me about Mukaishima, the location,

Thomas Kloepfer:

Curious? Yeah, so Mukaishima is, it's just an hour and a half, well, we're eight or nine hours by car or four hour Shinan right from Tokyo. We're about an hour and a half car ride to Hiroshima city. We're located in Omic City, which is a small port town that's seen a lot of traffic recently due to becoming a Japanese heritage site. There's a very famous cycling route now on this area that covers a seven islands and we're the first or the last island on that cycling route. It's about a 70 kilometer cycling route that has brought in a lot of tourists, both Japanese and foreign tourists. And it's mostly known for growing citrus. I guess it's a fishing village is where I live, so not a lot of farming actually is taking place anymore in our village. And the village has about a hundred to 120 households and it's some of it's mixed retirees, as many people might know. Japan's seeing big depopulation issue. And so it's a pretty quiet place to be. We're east and south facing, so we get sunrise, we get a lot of sun, and that's why we're kind of known as a citrus production zone because climate is really nice for that.

Leafbox:

How is the community, are they happy about the farm or how are you integrating into this small town?

Thomas Kloepfer:

So in the smaller town, oami, the greater, yeah, I think we've integrated really nicely, and my wife's been here for 14 years, so she knows a lot of people, even though she's not originally from here, of course, I'm not originally from here. And at first doing what we were doing in the village, it was a little bit of a challenge. But nowadays we have a local preschool that comes by. We do workshops and tours. So in a greater community, I think, yeah, we're starting to see some success. We have a C S A that has about 10 members in it right now, so that's community supported agriculture where 10 locals are actually coming in and buying a box about once a week. And we've a, because we're able to grow year round, we've been able to supply them with a box every single week since last year.

But the local community, a little bit of a challenge. When I first got here, I didn't want the, because of our customers would be coming up the hill and coming to see our farm, I didn't want the neighborhood to use this much roundup in places where maybe it's not necessary where we could even be cutting that grass and using it as a resource here on the farm. These are kind of things that we had a bit of a problem with. And just the overall maintenance and maintenance and management of the property. Sometimes because it's that natural farm, it does get a little bit weedy, which is motivation then to make sure the place is looking good. But we do have a lot of community members that come and see the farm, see the animals, see how we're doing. And in the last year really, we've actually had a lot of new people move into these, some of the abandoned houses that are in the village and they're been our friends or they're not necessarily from this part of the island either. So yeah, it's starting to see some kind of shift, some kind of movement, which is great.

Leafbox:

Could you tell me a little bit more about that noticeable change in consumer attitude? Do you think that's kind of part of the bigger, I think in Japan it's called lojas?

Thomas Kloepfer:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's certainly somewhat of a change, but Japan in general, organic agriculture is probably still only one or 2%, which is much less than the G seven nations if you compare it on a chart. And I think there's still a big way to go or a long way to go to move towards a bit more sustainable production. Now the government has even come out and said that by 2050 they want to have 30% organic production, which I'm wondering how that's possible, but we can also, maybe they'll change the definition of what it is, what it means to be organic and these kind of things, but move the goalposts a little bit. But I think there's a lot of potential too for that. And I think we participate in a monthly market, a monthly farmer's market that has a lot of that feeling to it.

So I think we're starting to see a little bit of a change. But the reality is too is that farmers in Japan, the average age is about 67, and those farmers typically wouldn't switch over so quickly. The Japan Agriculture Cooperative has a big role in farming as well. And their initial start was the manufacturing and selling of chemical fertilizers and pesticides and the importation of chemical fertilizers and pesticides. So a lot of farmers still rely on those and have just put that into their practice and it's just become standard. And that's where farmers tend to specialize under the JA model. You know, don't farm like we're doing 80 to 90 crops a year, you might grow two or three crops and you have a recipe of how to grow that under their standard and it needs to be a certain shape and size in order to sell it. So you end up with maybe more waste because of that. So we kind of have shied away from going that route in our farm.

Leafbox:

What's the relationship, I mean your farm's quite small, but have they come or gotten any support from JA or from,

Thomas Kloepfer:

So

Leafbox:

We do you have to register or what's the permitting process? I, I'm just curious, are the regulations easier in Japan or not or?

Thomas Kloepfer:

I think it's actually pretty unregulated to a certain degree, although for our farm, in order to purchase the farmland, and I think this is shifting and changing to allow for more people to purchase farmland in the future, but we were renting several plots on the island at one point, and because of that, we can show the, it's not necessarily ja, but it's a government agency that we can show that we have this much under cultivation, we own these amount of tools showing our assets, et cetera. And then from there we were able to purchase the property we live on. But I don't think that's such an easy route for everybody because most people want to start and they want to buy the land or they want to own the land or even start renting the land. And often that can be a challenge. So our farm, since it was under utilized and it was more or less abandoned, the neighbor who rented it to us originally was pretty open because we were going to cut the grass and cut the weeds and maintain the property somewhat. So we had a good way in and we were, like I mentioned, we were renting several other properties, we ended up l letting those go because we moved to the farm and that seemed to be an easier way forward as well. But then it would be challenging, I think.

Leafbox:

Thomas, what level of Japanese do you have?

Thomas Kloepfer:

Japanese I studied, so I studied Japanese in undergrad and then I did that internship in 2010. So I don't have a certification. I probably would be like J L P T three if I were to take the test. I was supposed to take the J L P T test nine years ago or eight years ago. And then I bailed out on taking the test because my wife, although we weren't together at the time, she was doing sheep shearing on another island. And that sound way more interesting. I dunno.

Leafbox:

Well, I'm sure your daily Japanese is, the JPL T test is very specific sometimes on grammar and whatnot, but I'm sure your survival Japanese is very high if your day to day Yeah,

Thomas Kloepfer:

Experiences and Exactly, and when I got here, I kind of put myself out there. I think as a jet or as an English teacher, sometime it's easier to find yourself separated or in those pockets where you're just, you're going to hang out with them. And then you might speak some Japanese on the weekday or a little bit, know a little bit. But I had a pretty good basic understanding of the language. And when I started the plot, I'd go to my neighbor's house and just listen and just try to understand. And because I wanted to know more about gardening and farming and my vocabulary was pretty high in terms of like farm language and knowing what fertilizer was, knowing what compost was, knowing what chemical fertilizer was, knowing what the vegetable names were, seed names were, et cetera. So that was a big push for me to learn and the language and really become involved in the community more. But I did have a lot of help in the beginning too. My neighbor, she introduced me to the landlord originally and she spoke fluent English. So that was also really helpful because without those kind of partnerships in the beginning it would be, we wouldn't be here today I think.

Leafbox:

Do you find that the rural people in Japan are more open to alternative lifestyles or Tokyo and the big cities?

Thomas Kloepfer:

I think Tokyo and the big cities probably are more open. I mean, when I'm in Tokyo, people just are doing their thing and maybe when they go back to their apartment, they don't know their neighbor and they don't know what's going on and here, and I've heard that particularly this island can be somewhat closed and a bit closed minded and because it's an island nation initially, but then it's an island within this island nation, and so maybe they've been a bit more reserved and it's very unlikely for them to have so much interaction with foreign people coming here. So that that's definitely been a challenge. And we are doing things a bit differently now. One of the things when we first got here was having animals that hadn't been done in a generation or two. Come to find out, I talked to my neighbors and they said, oh yeah, we used to have sheep, we did have chickens, we did, there was a group raising pigs just down the street. So these are things that we've had to just work to communicate. And sometimes we've had media TV here, local media as well as national media that's come out. And when they see me on TV and I can communicate, I think that's often a good way to make the connection, even though I can't say it myself, how I'd like to say it with being on TV sometimes has helped in that light to get people to better understand what we're doing. So yeah.

Leafbox:

Are you hiring employees or do you have any workers on your farm or local people or you and your wife doing everything?

Thomas Kloepfer:

So every year it really changes. It depends on what, what's going on, what's needed in the higher season. We do get, and we have gotten Wolfers volunteers, people doing farm stay, we've had interns and I've hired kind of friends in the community or in the city that were looking for some part-time work, but we don't have anybody running and working with us. And my wife, she runs her textile business as well, so she stays quite busy with that. And some of her staff have come over to help in times where really, really busy. But for the most part, I'd say 70 to 80% is done by me and my wife. And then 20 to 30% in these kind of peak times, we get volunteers and help when necessary. And sometimes we'll put out a message on social media saying, Hey, if you have some time this weekend, come help us. We need to build a fence. And then in exchange we'll provide some lunch vegetables to go and then share and talk about how we're doing the farm and what we're doing here.

Leafbox:

How are you continuing to develop your own learning about farming and business and sustainable growth? Are you looking Yeah,

Thomas Kloepfer:

I'm looking at YouTube and videos because doing regenerative agriculture and no-till farming, it's not really practiced here. But then initially it was talking with my neighbors, seeing what they're growing. I was so impressed by my neighbors who were in their eighties. I went to their plot when I first moved into this village and they're growing 20 or 30 types of vegetables and it's all for home consumption and the excess they just give away to neighbors and friends and family. And I was really impressed by that because they, they've been doing it for so long, their place was full of food and I really thought, yeah, so I knew that what they were doing was the right thing, the right way it seems. So anytime I'm wondering about when to plant something or when to seed something, I'll get a reminder if I go over and have tea with my neighbor.

So that's another big help. And also looking around seeing what other farmers are doing. And initially I think when I first got started was growing. I tried to grow some tomatoes and I was thinking, oh, my tomatoes are really growing really nicely this year. Everybody else looked kind of thin. There's only one stem, what's going on mine, mine are really full of foliage. And I realized I hadn't been trimming back at all. I hadn't been taking the suckers off and I got a big green plant with very, very little fruit. So looking around and observing what's going on around is probably one of the best indicators. And then communicating with the neighbors too, now that we're doing citrus, asking about how to cut back or trim or manicure the plant to where it'll grow in fruit properly in the next few years. So those are other big help for the farm and a great resource. But I think YouTube and books, seeing what's going on outside of Japan seems to be a great way to better understand how to do this kind of farming. But I don't see a lot of farmers in our climate doing necessarily what we're doing. So maybe that's one of the challenges. There's not a lot of farm farm videos that I've seen where people are doing citrus per, for example, organically or no-till in a regenerative farming way. So

Leafbox:

Thomas, what's your perspective then on the current kind of food system overall in Japan? How do you think that contrasts with the US or

Thomas Kloepfer:

Just Well, I think the food doesn't have as long of a way to go and the infrastructure is really, it's is as really great in Japan. I mean even though our farm is producing for local consumption, we do still get orders from outside of the region. And that's a huge plus for our farm because the rural populations are declining and urbanization is continuing to increase every year. So if we have some market or some opportunities there, I think it's great. In the us I lived in Georgia and you go to the supermarket and a lot of stuff is coming from California. I was just in Hawaii, a lot of the food theres coming from California, Mexico is coming from outside of Hawaii. So there's definitely a lot of challenges still in Japan, I thought it's 35% self right now. It used to be around 70% and we have a long way to go in terms of increasing food.

But then in terms of vegetables, it's about 80 to 85%. So it's actually doing really good in terms of what would be consumed on a regular and daily basis, it's mostly commodity grains and bean crops like soybeans, wheat, barley that's coming from outside. So soba, I guess these kind of crops are coming from outside. So it's really hard to say which system is better or worse. I do think there's still a long way to go in terms of food waste in both countries and in Japan particularly, as I mentioned, if it's not a certain shape or not a certain size weight or if it has any blemishes, a lot of that stuff just gets tiled under or thrown away. And I think we find ways to reduce waste. And then a lot of it is dependent on seeds coming from outside. And a lot of it is dependent on fertilizers now coming from outside and we're seeing prices continue to increase on those things, so we can always be doing a bit more to make it a bit more sustainable. And yeah, I think there's opportunities there.

Leafbox:

I live in Hawaii, Thomas and I speak to sometimes my Japanese friends and there's so many wild boar in Japan now. And here in Hawaii we have wild boar and wild access deer and there's a lot of a big hunting community. And I think I saw on your Instagram or somewhere that you were doing some butchering classes or something. Are you doing that?

Thomas Kloepfer:

Yeah, we've done so for chickens actually, we get older that are no longer laying from our prince farm, and we'll use them a little bit in a chicken tractor, a mobile chicken tractor that will just kind of pull around the farm. And we'll do that for some of the weeder warmer seasons. But then we've actually done workshops for that and for wild boar, when I first got here, I had some wild boar and I thought it was okay. And then I came back to this area and was starting to work at my wife's company. And then one day she said, oh, there's a wild boar. I just got a phone call and she actually knew how to butcher. I had no experience in that at all before coming to Japan. And she knew how to do it. And she showed me how to butcher the boars.

And eventually she got the hunting license for trapping boars. So we trap two to three bores a year. Probably if we were a bit more proactive about it, we could be trapping much more and if we increased the number of traps we have, we'd be increasing that. But they're a big problem. I mean, when I first got to the farm, I didn't have a lot of infrastructure. I didn't think I would be staying here, so I didn't put a lot of money in fencing. I used what was around me, which was bamboo post, some polycarbonate roofing as like, or, and some tin roofing as siding, thinking that was enough. And it was definitely not enough. I came back to the farm one afternoon and saw my zucchini had just been obliterated by wild boar. So from that moment on, I knew we're going to have to do a little bit more to keep 'em down, the pressure.

And this area, they weren't here before, so most farms didn't have fencing and infrastructure put in place, but they've actually come off the main island or they've come from sheku by swimming. And now with that cycling route, it's covers seven bridges across the island. They now walk across the bridges in the evenings and night to get over to the island. So they're using some of our infrastructure to get around too, which is interesting. But they can be a big problem. They're not as, I don't know if they're as big as the bores maybe that were introduced to Hawaii. They're like an Asiatic boar that's really, it is a little bit smaller than what we see sometimes, even Texas and cause some of those hogs are hogs that escape from a big yard and then bread with other wild bores and just became these kind of monsters. But they're, the ones we get are still pretty small, but we find that it's also really hard to trap the bigger bores because they don't go in the cage traps. So there's foot traps that you can set. And we've set 'em before, but we've never really had a lot of success catching them. And little worrisome about what to do after you catch one in a foot trap because it's still got three legs free. So

Leafbox:

Still, well, you have to do the Hawaiian technique. You poor friends hold the pig and you knife the throat.

Thomas Kloepfer:

Okay, okay. Yeah,

Leafbox:

That's what they do in Hawaii. But in Hawaii, usually for trapping hogs or wild bore, you use dogs. Yeah, the dogs would then trap him and then use a spear or knife to finish. Yeah.

Thomas Kloepfer:

Wow. Yeah, we capture 'em with a cage trap box trap with a guillotine type door that shuts in, shuts 'em in. And then we, because our area and we, me and my wife, we don't have gun license, we don't have that degree of hunting license here. So we use spear to finish the bore. And it's a bit part of the process. I think being on a farm and being in this nature where we're at, they often come in, they consume our sweet potatoes, our pumpkins, ex potatoes, and also come in and till up the soil. And then if we do trap, it's kind of this circle that,

Leafbox:

No, it's a circle of life. I think it's normal. Yeah, I mean, it's just funny because my friends in Japan, they just thought we were wild because you know, can go hunting right here in Honolulu and you can get the permit and one or two days and you can use a gun, an archery, a knife on the trails, just five minutes from Waikiki you can go hunting. So it's just interesting because in Japan you have the same thing, but they make it quite, I know in Hokkaido they must have so many wild animals, and I don't know how they heap those populations in check, but I guess there's there they hunt with guns and among guns.

Thomas Kloepfer:

And similarly to the farming issue, the age of hunters is just increasing year on year, and there's not a lot of young people who can or would hunt. So it just makes it another challenge. And fortunately in our region, we only have wild boar, but I've got friends who farm in other parts of Japan and they've got deer, wild boar, and they have to deal with monkeys

Leafbox:

And monkeys. Crazy. I don't even know,

Thomas Kloepfer:

I just can't, can't even imagine dealing with that. My friend was saying that pretty soon he'll be harvesting onions and almost every year some group of monkeys will come in, they will grab one onion, take a bite out of it, realize they don't like it, and throw that one away and then go harvest the next one, take a bite, throw it away. They just kind of continue this process until they're full of hundreds and they go on to the next thing.

Leafbox:

Yeah. So going back, Thomas to the major issue in Japan, the elderly population increase. And how is, you said there's people moving to the community and are more and more young people getting interested in these kind of alternative lifestyles? Or is this still kind of fringe and do you find

Thomas Kloepfer:

It's definitely fringe? It's definitely because I think you get a lot of people too, and government is also working to promote younger people coming to rural areas. There's even subsidies for younger people to get farm to start farms now, but those common, they'll start and then they'll realize some of the difficulties or maybe they'll have some issues with the community. So in some cases it is a bit of a challenge. I think oci and this island, Maima has become pretty unique in the sense that it's getting a more people wanting to have a bit of an alternative lifestyle trying to change. And I guess in Japan they call it like I turn or U-turn people, but people who've l lived in the big city and then have come back, these are becoming more and more common. And I think they're promoting for people to come here and live in the rural area.

But I don't think it will happen at the rate or the pace at which the depopulation issue will continue to occur. And we're not that rural in our island, whereas if you went more to Koku or if you went into the center part of this region, like in Shani Prefecture or Torry Prefecture, those areas have a much greater elderly population with more of the more challenges than I think what we find here. So our area, I mean, it's a 20 minute car ride to the city center and the city has about 120,000 people. But this, it'll continue to go down over the next 20 years or 10 years. But I can definitely see in the community and the markets that we attend, there's a lot more younger people. There's a lot more families that have made up the community that we're a part of, and people are starting up these new shops and businesses that I think are pretty unique. And sometimes they feature some of our produce or they get advice on how to start their own garden. So we're creating community and connection within that. And I think that's going forward, that's going to be really valuable compared to maybe what the average or the majority of maybe Japan will do.

Leafbox:

Do you Thomas see other foreigners coming to Japan kind of pursue your kind of path or?

Thomas Kloepfer:

Yeah, I'm on a few website or I'm on a few social media groups. One is called Coma and one is about renovating and building a house in Japan. The other one is a Japan gardening website that mostly features F foreigners coming to Japan and wanting to do similar projects. And one of the videos that is now featured on YouTube called Growing Small, the guy has mostly interviewed foreigners who have come to Japan to do some of these more permaculture or regenerative ag type projects that seem to be going pretty well. And then our island, I think there's a handful of foreigners who've started up cafes or businesses or restaurants, and then there's still opportunities to teach English and or work in some other trade. So I can definitely see an increase, but getting in is probably the hardest part. And a lot of people have ideas or thoughts that they want to come to Japan, but getting here, staying here, getting the visas, I'm seeing one couple now a few islands away that they're trying to get a business visa to start a homestead. And I'm wondering how does that even work? Because they're not one, they're both not from Japan. And that could be a challenge, I think.

Leafbox:

Yeah. Thomas, what's some of the goals you have for this year that you want to share with people?

Thomas Kloepfer:

The goals this year, so it's kind of maintaining and sustaining what we've already done in the last several years, maintaining the same amount of customers. I'm actually going to be working off the farm just trying to expand just different career opportunities and potentials. So I want to sustain and maintain what, what's going on. But also in the last year, my father-in-law bought a property that was also abandoned or unused house, which came with another location and it's an older citrus storage shed. And that property we're hoping to turn to a cafe or farm to table space, and that will feature 80% of our produce, and we are going to continue that and just keep things moving in that direction. And so that's the big thing. And every year, I think in the height of summer, spring, summer, I sometimes get a little bit over, a little bit over pressured or a little bit worn out.

And I think the thing with this year is just to kind of maintain optimism and keep going because every year with farming or gardening, anything you, you're going to have some challenges. Things aren't going to grow as well as you expected or certain crops, but then there's always that one or two crop that just really shines, really flourishes. And I think thinking about that in the long term, not just in the year to year basis, the annual basis, but we're still building soil every year. We're still improving something every year. So maintaining and then sustaining that should be really the goals for this year and for our farm.

Leafbox:

Nice. Well, Thomas, I really would love to visit your farm one day, and if you come to Hawaii, please contact me and we'll show you some of the local community here. Thank you. Yeah. Anything else you want to share or anything else? What's the best way for people to get ahold of you if they have questions or anything? Pitchfork Farms dot, what was it? Dot com or jp? Yeah, Pitchfork. JP

Thomas Kloepfer:

Pitchfork farms.jp. And yeah, we're on social media with Pitchfork Farms. Those are some of the best ways to get in touch with us. I think we have a space where people can write and send a message or an email to our farm. And yeah, if you're in Japan, look us up. If you're coming out for a cycling trip on the island, you can always stop by the farm, check it out, and yeah, we'll be here for this coming season. So yeah, looking forward to the visits.

Leafbox:

Great. Well thank you very much, Thomas, for your time. I really appreciate it. I'm going to stop the recorder one right now.

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